The Art of Tipping at TipDrop.com

TipDrop Help puts it like this:

"Using TipDrop is pretty simple. You can either browse the categories to find tip sheets that you are interested in, or you can create your own tip sheets for other users to add to."

True!

But, as with anything else, there's some tricks to "tipping" successfully. In order to ferret out what these tricks are, let's go take a look at the home page of TipDrop.com.

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Note: If you're new to TipDrop, you might want to take a look at the TipDrop User Guide — Orientation first before you read the rest of this post about The Art of Tipping.
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Taking it from the top, the 1st thing we see is the header graphic on the left. And the 2nd thing we see is the famous little blue letters of "Ads by Google."

And *that*, my friends, is what tipping is *really* about:
Making money from AdSense ads.

But, since nobody would ever come to the Internet if all it had to offer was just a bunch of ads, we have to be able to provide them with whatever it is they're looking for, and that can be summed up in one word:

Information!

So that's what TipDrop does. It provides information — in the form of short, easily-digestible "tips" or snippets — to people who come onto the web looking for it. And the *way* they look for it is by typing what they're looking *for* into the search box of Google ... or Yahoo or MSN or any other search engine of their choice.

Now, let's say that somebody types in a search term or "keyword phrase" like "salsa dancing classes." What they're going to see next is a page of 10 websites on the left offering information and products about "salsa dancing classes," and 10 ads on the right, usually, although it can be more or less depending on the topic. Most people — about 80% of searchers — ignore the ads and focus on the "SERPS" or Search Engine Results Pages.

This is good news for you and me because guess what: Search Engine Results Pages are free! We don't have to pay to be in among the SERPS like we would have to pay to be in among the ads.

We do, however, have to figure out how to get *listed* in the SERPS, and preferably in amongst the top 10 of a l-o-n-g list of other people who *also* want to be on the first page of Google for the same search term that we want to be on there for!

And how we do that is start with a "seed word" like "salsa" and take a look at the number of other pages who are also competing for that keyword and, if we think it's too big a number to go up against, we "smallerize" that number by adding a second keyword to our first one. Like this:


1) Salsa .................................. 40,800,000
2) Salsa Dancing ........................... 2,100,000
3) Salsa Dancing Classes ..................... 951,000
4) Salsa Dancing Classes Seattle ............. 194,000
5) Salsa Dancing Classes in Seattle .......... 141,000
6) Evening Salsa Dancing Classes in Seattle ... 24,500


Do you see how the number of results gets lower as the keyword phrase gets longer? It's called "the long tail" for a reason and the reason is this: The longer your tail, the higher the probability that you'll get to waggle it on the first page of Google!

But first you have to check and see if anybody is actually typing in "evening salsa dancing classes in Seattle". Just because *you* can turn up 24,500 results for it by typing it into Google yourself doesn't necessarily mean that it's ever going to occur to anybody *else* to do that and, if it doesn't, then you're going to be waggling your tail to a no-show audience!

So what you want to do is find a keyword phrase that *enough* people type in every month to keep you in business, but not so many people that every other marketer on the planet is competing for their attention.

And the way you do that is by paying a visit to Google's very own keyword research tool.

Here's the address:

https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal


And what you do next is type your "seed word" into the box and wait a few seconds while Google processes your request. When a list of keywords is returned to you, you'll need to do a little tweaking on it before you start using it:

a) At the top of the far-right column, where it says "Match Type", click the little down arrow and select "Exact"

b) Above that, where it says "Choose Columns to Display," select "Show Estimated Avg. CPC" (which stands for the Cost-Per-Click that the advertiser pays)

c) Also select "Hide Local Monthly Search Volume," since the "Global Monthly Search Volume" will be fine for our purposes

d) Click twice on "Global Monthly Search Volume" to sort the number of searches per month in descending order by amount

e) As to the "Advertiser Competition" column, the only thing you need to be aware of there is, if there's no "green" showing, it means there's no ads showing, either, which means there's no point in choosing it, if what you're trying to do is make money from ads. And if you're at TipDrop, then that's *exactly* what you're trying to do.

WARNING: Never click on the ads on your tip sheets yourself, and never ask your family, friends and neighbors to click on your ads for you. If you do either of these things, Google *will* find out about it and close your account and then it won't make any difference whether you waggle your tail or not!

1) So now we're ready to take a look at the results for our seed word "salsa," and the first thing we see is that the Cost Per Click ("CPC") to the advertiser is $0.53, out of which Google is going to take around 75% (nobody really knows exactly how much), which leaves us with around 25%, which is about $0.13, of which we get 75% at TipDrop, which is about $0.10. (Note: TipDrop doesn't take a percentage of the money, actually; rather it takes a percentage of the traffic, but it comes to the same thing in the end.) And the second thing we see is that 11 *million* people type "salsa" into the search engines every month! WooHoo! Ten cents times one click might not be very much, but ten cents times 11 *million* clicks is a whole nuther story! However, if you'll recall, there's *40* million SERPS for "salsa", too, which is way too many for our little tips to go up against, so we have to keep looking. And the way we do that is by picking a keyword phrase like "salsa dancing" out of the list and put it back into the tool to see what we get.

2) When we type "salsa dancing" into the tool, we see that it has 301,000 searches every month, which is *way* down from the 11 million searches for "salsa", so we know we're on the right track. So we scan the list and spy out "salsa dancing lessons" which has 12,100 searches, but 972,000 competing results in Google, so we settle on "salsa dancing classes", which has 3,600 searches every month and 951,000 competing results.

3) So now what we do is put "salsa dancing classes" into the tool. BTW, this process is called "drilling down". And when we get to just a mere handful of results, we know we've drilled down far enough. "Salsa dancing classes in" with 1000 searches per month, and "free salsa dancing classes" with 28 searches a month are all that's left. Nobody, in other words, is typing in "evening salsa dancing classes in seattle." Not that Google is including in their keyword list, at any rate.

So "salsa dancing classes" it is. That's the keyword phrase we're going to use to see if we can eventually get our little tip out there in front of some of those 3,600 people every month who are searching for it. So we create some content *about* "salsa dancing classes." And we include our keyword term, "salsa dancing classes," in every tip we write on the subject ... preferably at the beginning, because Google will "bold" it for us when somebody types it in and, if it's right at the beginning, it's more likely to catch the attention of the searcher, who will say to himself or herself, "Oh, yes, that's what I'm looking for. Let's check out this one." So they do. They take a look at your tip. And there's an ad right under it that reads "Salsa Dancing Classes Seattle," and they just happen to live in Seattle, so they click on it! And bingo! You just made a dime!


Here's a list of the 8 tips I have created so far for "salsa dancing classes":

Salsa Dance Classes — Although there are instructional DVDs available online, local salsa dance classes may be your best choice, because you get to learn in a fun group environment with other people who are learning, too, so you make lots of friends.

Salsa Dance Classes — While big classes can be exciting and vibrant, structured courses with smaller classes, weekly course outlines, and lots of fun practice time in a nightclub afterward may suit your learning style better.

Salsa Dance Classes — You can burn up about 10 calories a minute by salsa dancing. There's no impact injuries to worry about like there is with jogging, but you still get the benefit of both an aerobic and anaerobic workout. And you have a good time!

Salsa Dance Classes — Although the basic steps in salsa dancing are very simple, the music is complicated, with many subtle beats running through it, so it takes time to sensitize your ears and your feet to the rhythms. Structured classes can help.

Salsa Dance Classes — If you want to become thinner, stronger and healthier ... if you're tired of boring workouts at the gym ... then learn to salsa dance. You'll quickly get into much better physical shape, & you'll have a wonderful time doing it!

Salsa Dance Classes — A good foundation is the place to start. Then what you do is build your skill level as you go along. Here is a YouTube video of the basic steps for beginners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfDVnX4j3-w&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Salsa Dance Classes — You'll be working your arms, back, buttocks, stomach and legs simultaneously. Salsa dancing is a complete body workout that burns about 10 calories a minute. Keep a towel handy. You'll be working hard and breaking a sweat! :)

Salsa Dance Classes — If you suffer from depression, a 10-week structured course of lessons in salsa dancing can help. It's also a great cure for a frustrating day at the office. "Put on your red dress, baby" ... and go dancing!


The first two tips I wrote "one at a time" ... one in the afternoon, and one in the evening. And then I said to myself, "I think it would be more efficient if I wrote two at a time tomorrow." So that's what I did. I wrote two around lunch time and posted them within half an hour of each other.

That's when I discovered that the TipDrop home page will only *show* one tip at a time, no matter how many you post. So I thought about that for awhile, and then I wrote two more tips and posted one of them at 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon, and the other one at 7:00 o'clock in the evening. In other words, I let a few hours go by before I posted the second one. I wanted to give others a chance to post their tips, for one thing, and I also wanted to give others a chance to see mine, which they couldn't have done, if I'd posted them all in rapid succession. Not on the home page, anyway. On my own page, of course, they would all be there for anybody to see ... anybody, that is, who happened to go to my page.

And then later that night, I wrote four more tips all at once. And I would have to say that — in my opinion — that is definitely the most efficient way to do it. It does take some "set-up" time, after all; you have to get your head into it and doodle around on it and so on ... and then write it. And once you start writing, you might as well continue, particularly if the topic you're writing about is one with lots of "meat" in it, which "salsa dancing classes" most certainly is. I haven't even scratched the surface of it!

Notice, also, that I "called out" my keyword phrase at the very beginning of the tip. I did this for two reasons: (1) because I wanted to tell the Google adbot in no uncertain terms that my tip was about "salsa dancing classes", and that I want it to serve up ads about salsa dancing classes! And (2) because I wanted to do my readers the courtesy of knowing what the tip is about *before* they read it, so they can decide for themselves whether they want to read it or not. So I guess you could say that I'm using my keyword phrase like a mini-headline. If you go to the home page, where I and a couple of other people are setting up our tips like this now, you'll see how helpful it can be to readers scanning the roster of tips in an attempt to find one that interests them ... sort of like reading the classified ads, in a way. Because that's how we do it, isn't it? We scan along the top lines until we see one that catches our attention, don't we? And then we stop and read it. Same principle here.

There's another way in which the home page is similar to "the classifieds" and that's the fact that *the real purpose* of a classified ad is to get the reader to take some form of action, either pick up the phone and call, or go to a website and click, or whatever.

On the TipDrop home page, the same thing is going on. The title of the tip sheet is displayed in bold blue letters to catch the eye of the guy on the street and draw him into the content. The category the tip sheet is in is displayed in blue italics. And the author of the tip is displayed is blue, too. Which is to say, there are three things a visitor can click on to go somewhere interesting, one of which (the tip-sheet title) takes him to a page with AdSense ads on it, and the other two take him to pages where he can click on more tip-sheet titles, which will take him to pages of tips with ads on them.

As of this moment (8:30PM TH-09-03-09), there are 14 "salsa dancing classes" tips on my "Salsa Dancing Classes Tip Sheet" and 3 AdSense ads (so far). As of this writing, it looks like the system is set up to publish the first ad after the first tip, and then one ad every 5 tips after that. I'll know for sure when there are two more tips added to the last three on mine. If an ad displays under the 5th one, then that's what it's been configured to do. It may also be configured to "max out" at 4 ads, but the only way to determine that is to add another 5 tips and see if a 5th ad displays.


Here are the ads showing on my "Salsa Dancing Classes Tip Sheet" at the moment. Notice how tightly "targeted" they are to the subject of dancing:

Ballroom Dancing Special.
4 Private, 1 Group, 1 Dance Party
Ballroom Dance Sampler $49.95

7 Free Salsa Dance Videos
Learn to Salsa Dance, 5 DVD System
Step by Step Salsa Dance Mastery

Learn Nightclub Dancing
Freestyle - alone or with partner,
bump and grind, dips & turns, etc.


This is *exactly* what you want to achieve because this is exactly what people want to see ... more information and products about dancing, whether it's salsa, nightclub or ballroom. People don't mind about ads so much when the ads happen to be about something they're interested in. It's the ads they're *not* interested in that drive them crazy!

I don't know about you, but I was sure tempted to click on that "7 Free Salsa Dance Videos" ad! But it's on my own tip sheet, instead of of somebody else's, so I can't.

What I *can* do, though, is this:

*Right-click* on the blue words and go to "Properties" and copy the big long link there and paste it into a text pad so you can see where the url of the landing page is and copy that and paste *just that url* into a browser window so the advertiser doesn't get charged for the click, but you still get to see the page.

Here it is:

http://www.salsadancedvd.com/rc-learn-to-salsa-dance-a.shtml


Another trick:

When you "call out" your keyword phrase by putting it first in your tip, if you separate it from your tip with a "space dash space", it will appear to "stand out" more.

If you want a longer dash than the one on your keyboard, hold down the ALT key and type 0151 on your number pad. It will produce a dash that looks like this: —

Note: The html code behind the scenes for the longer dash actually takes up 5 characters, even though out front it only looks like 1 character. If you find you need those extra 5 characters for your tip, you can always revert back to the shorter dash.

I should probably mention, here, that the main reason I started every single one of my 8 "salsa dancing classes" tips with the *same* keyword phrase every time is, I was conducting an experiment. I wanted to see if I could influence the targeting of the ads on the page for the better by repeating the keyword in each tip, and I proved to myself that I can, so what I think that means is that you can, too.

However, if you study some of the tip sheets filed under various "categories" in the right-hand sidebar of the home page, you'll see that a good many of them have fairly well-targeted ads despite having been written "off the cuff," so to speak. For example, How to Get Rid of Stretch Marks Naturally has only one tip on it about using vitamin E oil, wheat germ oil, or lavender oil for stretch marks, and here's the ad that's being served up on it as of this writing:


Erase Stretch Marks -Free
Erase stretch marks permanently #1
selling mark remover. Free Trial


So good "targeting" obviously begins with the title of your tip sheet and is further enhanced by the content in the tips on that sheet.

And if that were all, then we'd be home free. But it's not all! There's more! There's the little matter of *traffic* ... the very thing we were trying to get by choosing lower-competition keywords, in the hope that our tips might actually show up in the SERPS somewhere and get clicked on and result in a visitor coming to our tip sheet and reading the tips and maybe clicking on one of the ads. Google won't cut you a check for your AdSense earnings until you've made over $100, and it takes a lot of clicks to add up to that, and a lot of clicks translates into a lot more visitors, because only a small percentage of your visitors are going to click on the ads.

So the *real* reason you're doing your keyword research as outlined above is so you can increase your probability of getting found in the engines. The fact that it is *also* going to help your ads to be better targeted is an added blessing.


Would you like to see what your tip-sheet listings look like on Google? If so, then type this into Google:

site:tipdrop.com

It will show you all the pages TipDrop.com has listed (although you will only be able to look at the first 100 pages of them, or the first 1000 results). Also, they bounce around a lot, so what's on one page today might be on some other page tomorrow. And there seems to be several different types of listing, although I don't yet perfectly understand why.


Some tip-sheet listings look like this one, with the title of the tip sheet, the first 160 characters or so of the tip, and then the address or url:

How to be "Artistic" @ TipDrop.com
Most of us are aware we have two sides to our brain. The logical, and the creative\emotional. Many people are afraid to do something creative. ...
tipdrop.com/tipsheet/how_to_be_artistic


Other tip-sheet listings look this this one, with the title of the tip-sheet repeated in the description:

Money tips for teenagers @ TipDrop.com
User contributions and tips about Money tips for teenagers.
tipdrop.com/tipsheet/money_tips_for_teenagers


And here's an example of one of the tips on somebody's tip sheet:

Tomas Belcik @ TipDrop.com
Yet another option on Best of Argentina in 15 days can be adding instead of Torres del Paine, so the stops would be: Buenos Aires, Glaciers, hike Fitz Roy, ...
tipdrop.com/tombel


And here's an example of somebody's tip on somebody else's tip sheet:

Twitter Tips @ TipDrop.com
The best Twitter adder is Hummingbird Software at http://www.hummingbirdtweets.com/ They keep up with their software, great company, helps you to add ...
tipdrop.com/tipsheet/twitter_tips


If you want to see how *your own* tip sheet listing looks on Google, then type in this:

site:tipdrop.com salsa dancing classes
(with your keyword phrase instead of mine)


The listing for my tip *sheet* looks like this:

Salsa Dance Classes for Fitness and Fun! @ TipDrop.com
User contributions and tips about Salsa Dance Classes for Fitness and Fun!
tipdrop.com/tipsheet/salsa_dance_classes_for_fitness_and_fun -


And the listing for my most recent *tip* currently showing on the home page looks like this:

TipDrop.com - What do you know about that?
Salsa Dance Classes — If you suffer from depression, a 10-week structured course of lessons in salsa dancing can help. It's also a great cure for a ...
tipdrop.com/ -


And I know, now, that all this is working because some kind soul out there, who just saw my latest tip with "Put on your red dress, Baby!" in it, just sent me a link to the most awesome salsa dancing site with *oodles* of videos about every step and every move ... it's incredible!

Take a look!

http://www.how2salsa.net/


And *that*, dear readers, is *exactly* what we're after:

Traffic!

People who see our tips out there on the internet ...

and take action!

:)


Happy Tipping!

Elizabeth

ElizabethAdamsDirect
Resources for the Home-Based Entrepreneur


P.S.

I will talk more in another post about some things we can do to get more traffic to our tip sheets.

For now, I see I've forgotten to mention how important it is to post tips to the tip sheets of *others* as well as to your own. In fact, I think I would recommend posting at least 20 tips on others' tip sheets that appeal to you before you even think of starting a tip sheet of your own.

Why?

Because it will help you to get a feel for the kinds of topics people like to add tips to, that's why. And that's a very useful thing to know!


N.B.

If you are interested in participating in a Tip Support Group, please post a comment and say so. The purpose of the group is to exchange tips, tip sheets, and links.


COMMENTS:

If you have any questions about this post on how to keyword target your tips, please feel welcome to ask them in the "comments" section below.

TipDrop User Guide — Orientation

TipDrop.com takes "useful tips" social so they can be shared with everyone ... in 50 words or less! 255 characters, to be exact. So it's really a form of "microblogging" rather like Twitter, but with an extra 114 characters to spend on making your tip helpful.


TipDrop Users Guide explains how to do things on this social site. It covers everything I've learned myself so far, and anything anyone else cares to contribute. If you have any questions, please feel welcome to ask them in the "comments" section.


When I first came to this site on Thursday, August 26th, 2009, I felt like a complete newbie, so if that's how you're feeling, too, join the club! However, with a little exploring and a little experimenting, I managed to get the hang of it after awhile, and I'm sure you will, too.


Before you sign up, give some thought to the "username" you want to be known by, whether you want to use your own name, or whether you want to use a "screen name". For help in making this decision, scroll down through the list of tips on the home page of TipDrop.com to see what other people are doing and get some ideas. When you're ready, click the big blue button: Sign Up


Creating an account is easy. All you do is fill in your first and last name, your username, your password, your email and click "Create My Account" ... but before you do that, I suggest you read the "Terms of Service". It's short, so it won't take you very long, and there's some things in there that you should know, such as ...


"The TipDrop service makes it possible to post images and text hosted on TipDrop to outside websites. This use is accepted (and even encouraged!). However, pages on other websites which display data hosted on TipDrop.com must provide a link back to TipDrop."


After you've signed up, I suggest you return to the home page and click on the "TipDrop Forums" link in the top right area of the page and register for the forum so you're all set up to get answers to your questions, and maybe to help answer somebody else's questions in your turn.


What I did was go to the last page of the forum and started reading from the back to the front. This gave me an overview of what's going on here and also got me acquainted with some of the more active "tipsters", I guess you could call them.


Another good reason for signing up for the forum is you can send a private message to any of the participants. Also, you can type their username from the forum into the search box on the home page and find their Profile Page where you can send them a 255-character message.

Your Profile Page

Your Profile Page can be "customized" to reflect your personality, but there are some tricks to it, as I discovered when I tried to customize mine.


Click on the "Settings" tab at the top of your profile page. Then click on the "Design" tab on the left-hand side. This will open up a form where you can change the following four things:


1) Background Image

2) Background Color

3) Sidebar Color

4) Sidebar Link Color


The Background Image is the one I had the hardest time with, myself. If you're a whiz kid with images and such, then you'll likely skate through this part with no trouble at all. But if you're coming to it cold, with no special knowledge or image-editing software, then maybe some of the tips I discovered through the help of some TipDrop members will help you some, too.


For the image itself, I googled the term "background image" and picked grsites.com from which to select an image. If you go to my profile page and look in the upper left margin, you'll see that I picked an image of raindrops.


It looks pretty good now, but it didn't when I first started. The raindrops were so skinny they could stand sideways and stick out their tongue and look like a zipper!


That's because I didn't understand at the time that the "Background Image" should be 152 pixels by 745 pixels or it wouldn't upload to the page. So if you don't have a lot of experience with this kind of thing, then I recommend you choose a background image that doesn't have anything in it that would look the worse for being distorted by the image resizer at grsites.com because you will have to uncheck the "proportional sizing" box in order to get your selection resized to 152 x 745 and that's going to make it look stretched out of all proportion!


The "Background Color" is a different matter. I love color, so awhile back I invested in a nifty little software program called "Color Impact" developed by the good people over at Tiger Color. It has a little color-picker tool in it that lets you pick any color on your page that you like and gives you the "hex value" for it, which is just what you need to put into the form in the "Design" section of your "Settings" page. And the same goes for the "Sidebar Color" and the "Sidebar Link Color", too. I made my "Background Color" the same shade of sky blue as my "Background Image", and my "Sidebar Color" a lovely shade of purple, and my "Sidebar Link Color" a deep navy, which really makes my links "pop" against the purple background. Like I said, I love color!


If customizing your profile page seems too daunting to you, then one way you could overcome this is to grab the nearest 9-year-old boy and sit him down at your computer and ask him to do it for you to your specifications. Kids these days know all kinds of things we grownups don't!

Phil Jansen of South Africa has a bright and sunny profile page with oranges and yellows and a "shining sun logo" by way of a "background image". Take a look at what he's done. It will give you some ideas.

Jon Leger, the creator of TipDrop, used a professionally-designed logo that illustrates all his products in a unique and clever way ... pinned up on a bulletin board!

Once your page is colored up to suit you, your next step is to go to the "Account" tab under "Settings" and upload either an actual picture of yourself, or a "cartoonized" picture, which you can find lots of for free out on the web. Nobody wants to look at that "Mystery Man" shadow which is the default photo!

Impact Productions chose a cartoon drawing of a lightbulb that really stands out in a long list of tips. It looks great!

Aldric Chang chose a "cartoonized" photo, so if you've never seen of one of those before, go take a look at his. It might give you some ideas.


Your photo or cartoon needs to be saved in your computer in order for you to be able to "browse" for it from the "Account" section in "Settings" and upload it to your profile page.


Next is your "Bio", a 255-character description of you and your interests. If you're not sure what to say, just take a look around at what other people have put in their bios until you feel like you know what you want yours to say. It's not cast in stone, so please don't be nervous about it. You can always improve upon it later.


Whenever you do anything like upload a photo or change your bio, be sure to click the Update-My-Settings button to save your work.


The next step is to type in your AdSense Publisher ID, including the "pub" prefix, and click "Update My Settings". Then log into your AdSense account and set up a "channel" there for "TipDrop.com" so you can check your earnings from time to time. If you don't have an AdSense ID, then you'll want to get one, but how to do that is a subject I'll reserve for another post. (Note: There's an explanation of how to set up a "channel" for TipDrop in AdSense in the "comments" section below.)

The last step in your TipDrop set-up process is the "links" area of your profile page. At TipDrop, you are allowed up to 10 "self-serving" links. This is really great, because it gives you an opportunity to promote either 10 of your own sites or, if you only have one site, 10 of its most interesting pages or, if you prefer, 10 of the most useful sites you know about, or anything else you want to link to!

Sharon Olvera, for example, displays 10 pages from her scrapbooking website, ScrapbookingIdeasInspired, on her TipDrop profile page. She's also done something else which I think is really nice, and that's include a link on her TipDrop profile page to the "Contact Me" page on her scrapbooking website, so people can get in touch with her.

To add your links to your profile page, all you do is fill in the url of the site you want to link to, give it a title, and add a description in the blanks provided. Then click "Update My Links" to save your entries, check to make sure your links look the way you want them to, and you're done!

That pretty much completes your basic setup at TipDrop. Once you have your profile page all set up to your liking, you're ready to begin posting tips and building "credibility" for yourself.

If you have any questions, please feel welcome to post them in the "Comments" section below.

Happy Tipping!

Elizabeth

ElizabethAdamsDirect
Resources for the Home-Based Entrepreneur

P.S.

COMMENTS:

In the "comments" section below, Colin Dodgson
of SalesAndMarketingWisdom does a great job
of explaining how to set up a "channel" for TipDrop
in AdSense, if you're not sure how to do that.